Wow, WP post limit. Pffff! I’ll just make two.

So wordpress is cutting the length of  how much I can post… here is the rest of Phrannies post.

…doing poly right – it’s hard! like i said, we don’t have a lot of societal support or acceptance. talking about poly to therapists is next to impossible, most of them find this lifestyle bogus. we need more open conversations about this, especially to de-stigmatize and evolve. and tho we all know humans are not monogamous by nature, psychiatry still aims to cram people inside some monogamous box of perfectionist expectations. and everyone preaches one-on-one marriage as the only “natural” way to be, when it is plainly evident that things just don’t work that way for most people. there are some lucky couples that are madly in love and unquestionably faithful to each other for 7 decades, i have no fucking clue how they do that – and tho i respect it ad admire it, it is not who i am and i’m not going to feel guilty about it (even though society aims to shame me and all those like me, for the most part).

in the last few months, people like Oprah and other celebrities (Tilda Swinton, Will and Jada Smith, etc) are bringing this lifestyle into the limelight – thank god! the public seems to think that polyamory is the same as swingers – but swinging is just one subset of the many varieties of polyamory out there. we’re not all sluts! i consider myself a poly prude, really. i’m very picky… only the truly worthy have a chance at the keys to my yoni.

so, you know people who have gotten hurt by this lifestyle – it is not without its share of pain, indeed! it doesn’t HAVE to be painful, but striking the right balance to make people feel good is something that takes a lot of time and practice and honesty. the key things to avoid others getting hurt: HONESTY, COMMUNICATION, RESPECT, TRUST. this is essential for ANY relationship, regardless of their amorous status. without these elements, no relationship will stand the test of time, unless happiness is sacrificed for emotional separation and reluctant complacency. all intimacy is lost. for those who you know who have gotten hurt – i would wonder if perhaps they did not have specific rules established for their extraneous relationships (yeah, i didn’t know this would be the way to go until later – i learned from experience and major fuck-ups that we needed ground rules for this lifestyle)? if it was more of an open-door policy, so to speak? when people’s expectations and needs are not discussed, there is TONS of room for misinterpretation and mistake making. inevitably – some people assume one thing, others assume other things, and in the end you just have a room full of asses. but even if the shit hits the fan with a poly relationship, ideally they would handle the hurt this way – the person who is hurt would let the person who hurt them know what happened, why they were hurt, and what boundaries were crossed that were not OK to cross. the partner would listen, discuss with that person what their needs are, in order to feel more respected and secure. each partner would let the other know that they love each other and want to help them to feel secure (one would hope this would be the truth – if this is just “one of those things you say” then the relationship is fucked). renegotiation of needs, boundaries, and comfort levels are a regular topic of conversation for most poly people. one thing i suggest to people who are poly, or poly curious, or those who are confused, or hurt, or wanting guidance as to how to go about this… there are quite a few online poly groups out there. online resources are very valuable – they often have many ideas on how to establish honest communication, how to explore your own needs and rules, etc. there are some excellent books out there too, that help to understand not only HOW this works, but how it feels, and how people’s feelings change and evolve. i recommend The Ethical Slut for starters, but here’s some other useful links:

http://www.poly-nyc.com http://www.polymatchmaker.com http://www.polyamory.org/SF/groups.html http://www.polyamorysociety.org en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyamory

there are also quite a few forums and discussion groups online where people share their stories and reflections and problems. it is quite an active community out there! i am definitely involved with the NYC branch of poly, we meet regularly in various ways, both socially and more educationally. being with other people in this makes a HUGE difference. it is both validating, and reassuring, that we have common experiences and all want to better ourselves and our approach to other relationships. doing this solo – it sucks ass!!!!!!!! let me tell you something – cheating on a partner is infinitely easier than polyamory. but the trade off can be a huge price to pay – do you lie to and sneak around behind those you love, losing your self-worth, dignity, and respect for your partner, and risk getting caught and having the heartache of having lied (sure, it can be exciting, but that spark wears off when reality hits)? or do you come clean with your partner and tell them you have feelings for someone else, but that it doesn’t change your love for them? that’s a different hurdle to jump over, but it is one where you don’t sacrifice your own honesty, and where you actually do your partner the favor of being as true to them as you possibly can be. the only other alternative is to give up and be monogamously faithful, but at the price of you never, ever allowing yourself to have deep feelings of love for anyone else (except platonically, or not at all). for me, that is unacceptable. i love one person, but if that person tells me that i am not allowed to love another in a romantic way ever again, that becomes a jail for my heart, and then i no longer feel love for anyone. if i have to suppress my feelings for one person, i have to suppress my feelings for all of them. the result is usually not happy. i’m miserably repressed, i make my partner’s life shitty because i can’t be myself, i don’t feel accepted or respected (shouldn’t true love be unconditional, alas?), and to top it off, i lose all interest in sex (as it becomes more of an expectation and duty, as opposed to a free expression of affection – how can you be truly intimate with someone who doesn’t accept you?).

before i end this insanely huge post, let me share a concept that poly people talk about and live with, that really helps to deal with issues of jealousy – Compersion. it is considered the opposite of jealousy. it involves being happy for those you love when they are happy, even if it is with someone else. let me give you a benign example – a mother being happy that her son just got the job of his dreams, even though it is 2000 miles away from home. a mother’s love is unconditional, and she will be happy for her son’s happiness, even though she may miss the holy bejeezus out of him. the fact that he is happy makes the mother happy. the feelings of sadness and missing her son are the negative emotions that show her just how much she loves him, how precious he is to her, and how no matter what, what she wants is for him to be happy. this is the kind of love that polyamory strives for – unconditional, regardless of the many varied emotions that may ensue. in poly, this is the same, with the added sexual element (preferably without the people being related. yuk). this is a decent link or two that explains compersion a bit more:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compersion
http://www.yourtango.com/20086005/compersion-for-beginners planetwaves.net/compersion.html

compersion is like a more “mature” version of love. one that is more grounded, and less like the craziness of the initial NRE (NRE is notoriously unstable, and yet so delicious). speaking for myself, i have not been able to achieve this more at-peace state of jealousy-free mind, but i have been talking with those who are able to do this, so that i can understand how to change my own thoughts to understand a different, deeper kind of love for others. the poly networks i am involved with are essential!! i learn sooooo much every time we meet. it’s truly amazing! this stuff has opened up my mind much more than it has opened up my marriage!! and believe me, with a head as hard as mine, surely all the cows came home and all the pigs flew before anyone thought i’d listen.

on another note, i am truly bitter that we didn’t have more of a chance to get to know each other in person at school. you must let me know when you are back in NY sometime! maybe bring your dude along  don’t worry – i have a policy that i don’t touch/hit-on any men any of my girlfriends are (or have ever been) with. i worship the Royal Vag to such an extent it is a bafflement i am not a lesbian. this doesn’t, however, stop me from letting the world know when i think someone is hot. girl, you SO scored! plus you’re totally hot too.

ok, i should end this now!! posting this has been whacktastic, omg!!! sorry about the confusion, insane amount of text! i hope this has been someone educational and not too rambly. XOXO!

Feature: Words of Wisdom by the lovely Phrannie L.

This is Phrannies wonderful answer to my last post – I am still digesting it and thinking about this concept of living a life so utterly different from the norm.

Enjoy reading and contemplating:

i’ve been thinking a lot about this post for the last day! jealousy is a real bitch. well, let’s say prick, or cock, or dessicated scrotum. not every bad thing has to have a female reference…

i think it’s wonderful that you and your man are so in love, that you want to be everything to that other person! i am not unfamiliar with that, and many poly people are after exactly that! we call it “new relationship energy” (seriously, NRE for short!) – it’s that all-consuming exciting “you’re my world” feeling that makes every song you hear seem to be directed at your own heart, etc. lovely! for most poly people (and i think for most people) this feeling of love and desire is not indefinite… it changes, matures, evolves into something less exciting yet more secure and stable. it has a different appeal – not necessarily better or worse than before, just different.

that’s where poly tends to come in for people. intellectually, it is not hard to process how there’s a place for polyamory to evolve, like you said. practically, however, it is a different story!! i understand that you know many people who have been hurt by jealousy with this lifestyle. unfortunately, it is EASY to fuck up, and really hard to stick to all the rules. especially since in poly, the rules are all different with each relationship. essentially, each poly person/couple/triad/etc have their own set of rules. some people i know don’t want to know who their partner is with AT ALL, they just need to know safe sex is happening. some people i know require notice of any physicality with another partner BEFORE it happens. some people need to meet all partners before any sex ensues. some people need to negotiate days and times. some people need every detail from their partner about what they do with the other person, some don’t want to know anything. i even know some people who require sloppy seconds every time their partner has been with someone else! you gotta respect when people are in touch and at peace with their kinks, man. and i will say that i know quite a few poly people who live jealousy-free, who are able to be in the same room with their partner’s other partners. who all have dinner together, and become friends, etc. there are many success stories out there too. it is just not often talked about, because… well, nobody talks about this shit in public, really.

the hardest thing with poly – getting it right!! since we all have different rules (and these rules change with time and experience and people), it’s easy to get hurt. jealousy has many opportunities to show itself. plus, since poly is not really a recognised lifestyle in the mainstream, we don’t get much support or advice unless we find groups of other polys. we WANT to talk about it in the mainstream, but in my experience, it is often a conversation and friendship ender. i’ve actually lost friends because i came out of the “poly closet”. i’ve been flamed out of endless websites whenever i’ve mentioned it. i’ve had people threaten to call child services on me because i have a kid and i’m not monogamous – wtf, people. i’m an excellent mommy – this has nothing to do with what i do with my vagina. i already gave birth, my genitalia is no longer required to parent.

poly people in my group often shake their heads upon reading about all the dumbshit celebrity marriages that break up after being together for decades – over a measly affair, no less!! all these expectations of fidelity and monogamy in marriage are pressuring people to either pick ONE person forever, or have NO ONE. we poly people always see a different alternative – why does one relationship (sexual, loving or emotional) NEGATE the veracity of another relationship? why do people seem to think that an affair basically annuls decades of building a family and home together? i admire the Clintons for looking beyond that stupid blowjob and moving on with their lives, without calling it quits on each other. especially when the entire country preached fidelity/divorce and impeachment. how fucking unfair is that??!! Hilary – i respect your massive cojones (as a person, not always a politician). what does it take to get this poly stuff right? how to avoid jealousy? i don’t know if jealousy can be avoided – but like all negative emotions, it can be put into perspective. that is probably the hardest part about dealing with jealousy, actually. trying to not take it as a personal attack, but more as a consequence of fears and insecurities and expectations. yes, polyamorous people are just as inclined towards jealousy as anyone else – we just don’t let that dictate who we are, and who we are with. as i write all this, i am by no means beyond feeling jealous myself, even as the poly person with the mono partner! i mean, if my hubby’s finding chicks with big jugs attractive, you’d better believe i’m going to have major boob-envy (damn you, my little, little perky dumplings), which will probably lead to body image insecurity, etc etc. am i not attractive enough? why can’t i be the only tits in his life? is he really attracted to big gazongas and i have been foolish in thinking mine were enough? well, currently i am the only melons (lemons?) for him, as he very much maintains that he is not poly-inclined in the least (i tried to encourage, but he won’t hear of it). he does admit to finding other chicks attractive – and my own jealousies at this point require that i hear nothing about it! it sucks that i can’t be everything for him – intellectually this makes sense, but of course personally it still makes me feel poopy. what is my jealousy and negative feeling telling me? that i don’t feel secure enough in my own skin. that i don’t feel worthy all the time. that my self-confidence needs work. that i need to listen to my partner when he tells me that i am still his #1 person, even tho he may be attracted to others (really, i’m so much worse than he is – a walk thru a college campus is a multiple orgasm for me). that i would love bigger tatas. see? the jealousy has not destroyed my relationship. it’s made me learn about myself more than anything. my man could have walked out on me years ago when i wanted to open up our marriage, but he did not. he must love me for more than my chesticles. it must be my bubbly hispanic booty. well, whatever the reason, i know i’m fucking fabulous, and he doesn’t want to leave me even tho i don’t believe in monogamy. that does help me feel special!

then, of course, there are moments in our lives when i wish dearly that another woman would take my partner for a little while so i can have some peace, and maybe she can teach him a thing or two about being with other people so i don’t have to (why must it fall only on me to train the man?!?! i have other shit to do!!!). this is probably a more common feeling after being together for a few years. during the NRE moments of a relationship, quite the opposite is true!

doing poly right – it’s hard! like i said, we don’t have a lot of societal support or acceptance. talking about poly to therapists is next to impossible, most of them find this lifestyle bogus. we need more open conversations about this, especially to de-stigmatize and evolve. and tho we all know humans are not monogamous by nature, psychiatry still aims to cram people inside some monogamous box of perfectionist expectations. and everyone preaches one-on-one marriage as the only “natural” way to be, when it is plainly evident that things just don’t work that way for most people. there are some lucky couples that are madly in love and unquestionably faithful to

Things I don’t know shit about: Polyamory

I got a very interesting reply to yesterday’s jealousy-post. Apparently the irony I meant to put into my writing did not carry as well as I thought (or maybe I just sounded bitter?) – thus it prompted someone to give me a very thoughtful answer, looking at the problem from a whole different point of view.

This someone is a girl I briefly met at school and then realized from facebook status to facebook status that we share sarcasm, the loss of a parent and a thing for gay men. But apart from that, I know nothing about her or the life she lives.

In her comment, which you can find below the “Just shoot me” post, she encouraged me to ask myself why I am jealous and what of. She also reminded me that being with someone, doesn’t mean you own them. Some time later on she mentioned her experience with the jealousy-issue:           P. is polyamouros, her husband is not.

In theory, I can share the man I love  with others. I can have threesomes and I am intellectually above jealousy.

In reality, I want to be the “-est ” girl he has ever known, and the thought of someone else seeing what I see, touching what I touch, simply having what I have (but then, from Phrannies perspective: do I have it?) is driving me insane. I believe that this is part of my idea of love: that it can only be me who makes him laugh like this, and my smile in the morning, my kiss goodnight the makes him happier than he was without me.

I think about this a lot, because many people I admire from the 1920s and 1930s practised Polyamory. Most of the time though at least one of the people in the amorous triangle or square  or octagon felt hurt or left out. The same goes for many of my gay friends: they are sexually openminded, but only if it is them sleeping with someone else. If their boyfriend does, they feel just as hurt as I would.

So, eventhough the idea of not being jealous appeals to me, I don’t think it would work for me without an effort just as painful as jealousy itself.

How do you handle it?